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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | The fact of the matter is the rules just do not say to take the edition from the front cover... it says to take it from the DVD Box... so that can be anywhere on the box.
Can people cause us problems with this... yes if they really wanted to I guess they could.... but it is what it is. And at the same time I don't agree with going only by the front cover as we could loose a lot of needed... legitimate editions that way. | | | | Pete |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | My point exactly. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Sorry, Unicus. I simply don't see it your way. And i see most your comments relative to the are designed to allow and even widen loopholes, see your numerous coments regarding intent. For some reason you want the Rules toi be just as loose as you can make them and allow for nearly every imaginable loophole...which to me is as bad as no rules at all. Skip  | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | I understand what you are saying Skip... I really do. You know me... I am a very rules oriented person... if the rules are in place that is how I will do it if I like it or not. But when it comes down to it... the rules are only as tight as they are written. You have to remember the rules are being followed by many... many people. They only know what is written there. Intent means nothing... if it is not properly worded in the rules people will see it differently... and there is no mind readers here... they will not know the intent of the rules.
Matter of fact the intent of the people that wrote the rules could very well be different then the intent that Ken had when he approved the rules. | | | | Pete |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Like I said Pete, where does it END. Are we to include the Version information from the little banners on warner Film back covers. I rthinkj not, and then what else gets shoehorned into Edition because somebody somewhere thinks it should be and can rationalize the inclusion. There is NO such edition on the the Widescreen of SW  M therefore the vote HAS to be NO! This not about reality this is about someone hallucinating data and then rationalizing a reason foir its existence. There are ocassions that such data is on the back cover, I don't like it, I don't want it, but there it is and I can't vote No. But this very different and there is ONLY one possible vote. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | In my eyes... the only end is one that can be covered by the rules... I may not like the answer... but as I said.. it is what it is... whether I like it or not... all we can do is wait for unforseen problems to come up and then address them in a rules update and submit it to Ken for his approval. What else can we do
Note that I am not talking about this particular case... I can't say on this case as I didn't look into it as it is not my copy of the movie. I am talking in general only. | | | | Pete |
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| Registered: August 22, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 1,807 |
| | Posted: | | | | You don't need to look for the intent. Just follow the Rule literally. Quote:
The Edition field is for distinguishing between DVDs, and for indicating special versions and collections (for example The Criterion Collection, Widescreen, Full-Screen Edition). It's usually safe to use one of the built-in selections if appropriate. If you are using a non-standard description, take it from the DVD box, and ensure it will help distinguish between different releases of the same title. Here is what I read there (the bold formatting is mine). A. What is the Edition field for? A1. distinguishing between DVDs and A2. indicating special versions and collections (for example The Criterion Collection, Widescreen, Full-Screen Edition). B. What description has to be used? B1. it's usually safe to use one of the built-in selections if appropriate B2. otherwise, take it from the DVD box, and ensure it will help distinguish between different releases of the same title. Summing up, a Widescreen edition is just one of the examples in the Rules, when the Edition field should be used. And it does help distinguish between editions, AFAIU. The description, in this case, is just taken from the box, even if it's from the Features on the back cover. But nowhere in the Rules it is said it must be a banner: maybe that was the untold intent, who knows, but we are not interested in the intent, right? | | | | -- Enry | | | | Last edited: by White Pongo, Jr. |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Enry:
Perhaps i have spent too many years in the poltical world of Washington DC, but to me intent is every bit as important as the letter of the law. What was the designer(s) of the law trying to achieve.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 3,321 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
Perhaps i have spent too many years in the poltical world of Washington DC, but to me intent is every bit as important as the letter of the law. What was the designer(s) of the law trying to achieve. As long as most of the contributors aren't visiting these forums, how are they supposed to determine the intent? All that have to go by is what is written in the rules. It looks to me like this is just another rule that isn't as clear as it ought to be. I read it as allowing Widerscreen to be added in this case. I can understand why some might disagree. And if we can't agree on what the rule says, then it's a good candidate to be updated in my opinion. | | | Get the CSVExport and Database Query plug-ins here.
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Well sign me up for whatever is on the FRONT cover PERIOD in this regard. I for one am tired of seeing people continually poke holes in the rules and then argue about it when they don't get the answer they want.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 4,678 |
| | Posted: | | | | I still would like to know why those who claim they're not poking holes in the rules seem to gladly disregard the part "If you are using a non-standard description, take it from the DVD box, and ensure it will help distinguish between different releases of the same title." (My bolding) It seems that as long as it's on the front cover, anything goes...  | | | My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | that one seems pretty simple to me... as I was told... it says "and ensure it will help between different releases of the same title." but as I was told... and is literally true... it does not say it has to be current releases... just that it will help. | | | | Pete |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,911 |
| | Posted: | | | | Been a while since I jumped... leaped into the fire...
I agree with everything that both Pete and Unicus have said on this matter (and everyone that agreed with them as well).
The rules have to be taken as they are written. We can't expect people that don't visit these forums to understand the intent that was meant when said rules were written.
The rules do not say "Front cover", it says "DVD Box". Last time I looked at a DVD box, it had 8 sides. A front, Back, Top, Bottom, Spine and spine reverse. All sides are considered equal according to the rules. Lucky for us, only three of the eight sides have text, unless it's a cardboard box.
Widescreen is definately allowed by the rules if it does not appear on the "front cover" to distinguish it from the Fullscreen version.
If you don't agree with the written rule, head on over to the rules forum and attempt to get it changed or fixed. | | | | Signature banned: Reason out of date... |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,321 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting pplchamp: Quote:
Last time I looked at a DVD box, it had 8 sides. A front, Back, Top, Bottom, Spine and spine reverse. All sides are considered equal according to the rules. Lucky for us, only three of the eight sides have text, unless it's a cardboard box.
8 sides? I'm only counting 6. Unless you forgot to mention the inside and outside.  | | | Get the CSVExport and Database Query plug-ins here.
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,911 |
| | Posted: | | | | Mark: Thanks, my math sucks, but there is an insdie and outside.. lol  | | | | Signature banned: Reason out of date... |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | So the consensus is that if it says Widescreen (or Fullscreen) anywhere on the DVD box then it should be put in the "Edition" field even if there is no current release in a different version, but because there might be one in the future and it will help distinguish them when and if the other ever gets released! We've got a ton of work to do to get all those widescreen DVDs updated to reflect "Widescreen" in the Edition field if that's what the Rules say. I believe that we also need to add "Dual Layered" to the Edition field as well if it appears on the back of the DVD, especially if there is a a single layered DVD already out there and even if there isn't one, just in case one is released in the future. And how about "Anamorphic", "Captioned", "Color", "Double-Disc Set", etc. These are all potentially editions that would help distinguish between different versions of the same DVD. In fact "DVD", "Blu ray" and "HD-DVD" also belong in the Edition field using the strictest interpretation of the Rule. Man, have we got a lot of work to do!  | | | | Hal |
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