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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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 Discussion on Credited As Field Part 2 (Locked) |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 1,328 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Gerri Cole: Quote:
xradman has done a nice job of putting together a plan for dealing with non-Western names. I have pinned that thread. There is no way I could summarize it here, so I thought it best to allow that one to continue. Thank you, Gerri. I hope to see constructive comments and criticism, not only in that thread, but similar threads on Korean and Japanese names. There is also a thread on discussion of International titles vs. Local titles thread that is pertinent to many non-R1 DVD collectors. Please check it out. Possible Source Suggestions: 1. Use IMDB as the source. Agree as an initial method to populate the database2. Use IMDB as a guide, allowing for debates on these forums on particular actors. Agree3. Actor's own website Agree when available to break deadlocks. But it must be actor's own official website rather than a fan site.4. Screen Caps/Time Stamps Not going to be usefulGeneral Rules (not a source): 1. No accents Agree for reasons related to problems with searches 2. Double quotes for nicknames in the middle name field Single or double, it doesn't matter as long as it's consistent3. no commas after suffixes It doesn't matter as long as it's consistent4. periods after all suffixes It doesn't matter as long as it's consistent5. Middle initial should have a period after it. If a middle name is known, we should use that instead of an initial. If it's not known, then we should use a period after the initial regardless of whether it stands for anything6. Comma after the surname when there is a suffix It doesn't matter as long as it's consistent | | | | My Home Theater |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting lyonsden5: Quote:
Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
Source suggestion comments remain unchanged.
Skip
You say:
1) Not crazy about using anyone as a source
What are you proposing if we don't use anyone as a source. Not trying to start anything, just curious what you are thinking.
Are we supposed to debate the thousands / hundreds of thousands of names without using anything as a starting place? That sounds like a free for all to me. As has been pointed out, why reinvent the wheel? I understand what you are saying, Rick. And I am still cogitating on this solution hoping to find the right answer. But as I said, I am not interested in a clone of anyone else, let alone the worst database I have ever seen. Now perhaps we could come up with some basic ideas For example someone else use Lon Chaney Jr so we use Lon Chaney, Jr. Same thing and breaks all possible connections to an outside source, as you know this is a concern as well, because I have seen numerous possibilities for Db's to poison their data and make it trackable, anything we can do to set us apart from that possibility is good. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
Now perhaps we could come up with some basic ideas
For example
someone else use Lon Chaney Jr
so we
use Lon Chaney, Jr.
Same thing and breaks all possible connections to an outside source, as you know this is a concern as well, because I have seen numerous possibilities for Db's to poison their data and make it trackable, anything we can do to set us apart from that possibility is good. Nobody owns the comma or lack of comma in someone's name.   | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting xradman: Quote:
Quoting Gerri Cole:
Quote:
xradman has done a nice job of putting together a plan for dealing with non-Western names. I have pinned that thread. There is no way I could summarize it here, so I thought it best to allow that one to continue.
Thank you, Gerri. I hope to see constructive comments and criticism, not only in that thread, but similar threads on Korean and Japanese names. There is also a thread on discussion of International titles vs. Local titles thread that is pertinent to many non-R1 DVD collectors. Please check it out.
Possible Source Suggestions:
1. Use IMDB as the source.
Agree as an initial method to populate the database
2. Use IMDB as a guide, allowing for debates on these forums on particular actors.
Agree
[b]3. Actor's own website
Agree when available to break deadlocks. But it must be actor's own official website rather than a fan site.[/b]
4. Screen Caps/Time Stamps
Not going to be useful
General Rules (not a source):
1. No accents
Agree for reasons related to problems with searches
2. Double quotes for nicknames in the middle name field
Single or double, it doesn't matter as long as it's consistent
3. no commas after suffixes
It doesn't matter as long as it's consistent
4. periods after all suffixes
It doesn't matter as long as it's consistent
5. Middle initial should have a period after it.
If a middle name is known, we should use that instead of an initial. If it's not known, then we should use a period after the initial regardless of whether it stands for anything
6. Comma after the surname when there is a suffix
It doesn't matter as long as it's consistent To be sure the actor's own website is preferred, xradman. But that is why I commented earlier taht when i am using outside documentation, I use a MINIMUM of two independent sources and these sources are not picked to reach a desired conclusion. We recently had a situation where a user did just that, there was thousands of Google hits on a name, with the end result of the hits being inconclusive relative to what the user wanted to achieve, with only a handful of third party references to what he wanted to see, so he used that for documentation. I could not support it because the overall picture of the research was not conclusive. He was cherry-picking data to achieve a desired result. Instead of allowing the data to determine the answer. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting m.cellophane: Quote:
Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
Now perhaps we could come up with some basic ideas
For example
someone else use Lon Chaney Jr
so we
use Lon Chaney, Jr.
Same thing and breaks all possible connections to an outside source, as you know this is a concern as well, because I have seen numerous possibilities for Db's to poison their data and make it trackable, anything we can do to set us apart from that possibility is good.
Nobody owns the comma or lack of comma in someone's name. James I am a very careful and conservative person. IMDb says they have copyrighted their data, how they can copyright Lon Chaney Jr, frankly I don't know, but I also know that their parent is one of the most litigious companies on the planet. So, in my book, ANYTHING that makes us different in form and appearance is GOOD. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,372 |
| | Posted: | | | | If poisoned data is you main concern that it shouldn't be an issue. If Invelos decided that it is OK to use them as the source then we're good to go. It is not up to any of us to make those decisions for them. I see now you back to 2 independent sources. This will not work for what we are doing here. All we are looking for is the common name. It can be ACTOR1 ACTOR2 and it will work. What you see will be the Credited As name. We just need one place where we can all agree (or a majority of us agree  ) to look to all be using the same source for the slew of common name submissions that are soon to come |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,911 |
| | Posted: | | | | I am stil trying to figure out why IMdb would poison an actor's name.
I know they poison the credits, but the name itself boggles the mind.
You really think that they would purposely put "Samuel Q. Jackson" so that no one would find Samuel L. Jackson? | | | | Signature banned: Reason out of date... |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,372 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
IMDb says they have copyrighted their data, how they can copyright Lon Chaney Jr, frankly I don't know, but I also know that their parent is one of the most litigious companies on the planet. So, in my book, ANYTHING that makes us different in form and appearance is GOOD.
Skip Again, not your call or your concern. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
how they can copyright Lon Chaney Jr, frankly I don't know, They can't. The person may trademark their own name in rare circumstances, but no one may copyright your name. Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
So, in my book, ANYTHING that makes us different in form and appearance is GOOD. Sorry but I'm not cool with L0n Chan3y Jr just to be different from IMDb. Let's use a form and appearance that makes sense rather than turning our data into pretzels to make it look like different. | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | My opinions...
Possible Source Suggestions:
1. Use IMDB as the source. Personally don't like the site... but ppl have a point with it being the most well known for all contributers to use it... so if you see fit I can't object (especially since I have no other idea.)
2. Use IMDB as a guide, allowing for debates on these forums on particular actors. I am personally against debating on the forums since it would slow down all progress and would cause nothing but endless discussions... getting us nowhere.
3. Actor's own website This is the best bet for those actors that actually has their own site. Fansites I would be totally against... would have to be the actor's Official Site.
4. Screen Caps/Time Stamps How would this help decide the master name? Don't think this one even belongs here.
General Rules (not a source):
1. No accents Agree... if no other reason ease of entry.
2. Double quotes for nicknames in the middle name field Agree
3. no commas after suffixes Agree
4. periods after all suffixes Agree
5. Middle initial should have a period after it. Agree
6. Comma after the surname when there is a suffix Agree | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting lyonsden5: Quote:
If poisoned data is you main concern that it shouldn't be an issue. If Invelos decided that it is OK to use them as the source then we're good to go.
It is not up to any of us to make those decisions for them.
I see now you back to 2 independent sources. This will not work for what we are doing here. All we are looking for is the common name. It can be ACTOR1 ACTOR2 and it will work. What you see will be the Credited As name.
We just need one place where we can all agree (or a majority of us agree ) to look to all be using the same source for the slew of common name submissions that are soon to come I might be wrong Rick, have you become a spokesman for Invelos. I haven't seen anywhere that Ken and Grerri have signed off on IMDb usage, raised as possible discussion points based on users comments but NOT signed off on.  And don't try to tell me what to worry aboiut either, not your business. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Screen caps and Time Stamps Pete are because there are thousands of names which we might NOT recognize, but might recognize the face.
I have mentioned her repeatedly, Kathleen Freeman, and no one has yet to say yeah I know who she is. But if I put a picture of her you would recognize her.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
Quoting lyonsden5:
Quote:
If poisoned data is you main concern that it shouldn't be an issue. If Invelos decided that it is OK to use them as the source then we're good to go.
It is not up to any of us to make those decisions for them.
I see now you back to 2 independent sources. This will not work for what we are doing here. All we are looking for is the common name. It can be ACTOR1 ACTOR2 and it will work. What you see will be the Credited As name.
We just need one place where we can all agree (or a majority of us agree ) to look to all be using the same source for the slew of common name submissions that are soon to come
I might be wrong Rick, have you become a spokesman for Invelos. I haven't seen anywhere that Ken and Grerri have signed off on IMDb usage, raised as possible discussion points based on users comments but NOT signed off on. And don't try to tell me what to worry aboiut either, not your business.
Skip Rick said the opposite of what you think he said.  Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
Screen caps and Time Stamps Pete are because there are thousands of names which we might NOT recognize, but might recognize the face.
I have mentioned her repeatedly, Kathleen Freeman, and no one has yet to say yeah I know who she is. But if I put a picture of her you would recognize her.
Skip To be clear, you mention screenshots because for example if someone wants to link Kathleen Freeman and Kathy Freeman, you want screenshots to prove they're the same person? | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan | | | | Last edited: by m.cellophane |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,372 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting lyonsden5: Quote:
If poisoned data is you main concern that it shouldn't be an issue. If Invelos decided that it is OK to use them as the source then we're good to go.
It is not up to any of us to make those decisions for them.
Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
I might be wrong Rick, have you become a spokesman for Invelos.  |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Hmmm, James I see your point. I would probably do that personally if I felt it necessary.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 404 |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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