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Game Consoles.....The good, the bad, and the ugly
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantAscended_Saiyan
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Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 1,127
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Quoting stefc:
Quote:
Question for you AS, I bought a PS3, it came with 2 BDs, since then I've bought 1 more (can't find any other exclusives I want to buy).

You must have quite specific tastes to only find 2 exclusive BDs you want to own.  I hope you don't mind me suggesting a few titles for you that reviewed quite high (from different genres).  Total Recall, Terminator 1 & 2, Tears of the Sun, Kingdom of Heaven, Memento, The Descent, The Usual Suspects, PoTC 1 & 2, Closer, Indentity, Young Guns, Vacancy, etc.

Quote:
If the PS3 is set to upscale DVDs (and does so pretty well), why can't it upscale the MPEG2 SD extras on a BD? My PS3 always outputs them at 480p?

It should be your settings.  Only select your max. resolution in the video settings and everything will output at that resolution.

In the future, you can PM me about questions like this one.
To err is human...
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DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantstefc
Registered: March 14, 2007
United Kingdom Posts: 254
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Thanks will try that, as for your list, the few that I considered double dipping for (T2, Memento, Kingdom of Heaven) are single layer or dual layer MPEG2 transfers. After seeing how good my PAL SD copy of Black Hawk Down looks upscaled on the PS3 and how close it is to the disappointing BD MPEG2 of Black Hawk Down, I've decided I will not purchase any of these sub-standard MPEG2 BD releases. Strictly AVC or VC-1 only for my HD purchases.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantAscended_Saiyan
A Blu-ray crack fiend
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 1,127
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Quoting stefc:
Quote:
Thanks will try that, as for your list, the few that I considered double dipping for (T2, Memento, Kingdom of Heaven) are single layer or dual layer MPEG2 transfers. After seeing how good my PAL SD copy of Black Hawk Down looks upscaled on the PS3 and how close it is to the disappointing BD MPEG2 of Black Hawk Down, I've decided I will not purchase any of these sub-standard MPEG2 BD releases. Strictly AVC or VC-1 only for my HD purchases.

MPEG-2 does not decrease PQ.  The lack of proper space and/or a bad master will.  I can tell you from experience that Black Hawk Down, Kingdom of Heaven, and Memento have great PQ.  Just look for reviews on HighDefDigest.com, DVDTalk.com, etc.
To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantstefc
Registered: March 14, 2007
United Kingdom Posts: 254
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I have BHD on BD, and I see very obvious MPEG2 macroblocks. MPEG2 is a lower quality codec to H264 (AVC or VC-1). You can quote whatever you like, you can claim its due to space (shame there are so many 25GB MPEG2 BD discs about then) it doesnt matter, you cannot convince anyone that MPEG2 video is the same quality as H.264, for any given bitrate.

World Trade Center


Look at the macroblocking on the hair, theres just no comparison between MPEG2 from 1993 and today's AVC/VC-1 H.264 variants, I dont care how high the bitrate is. You would have to be a total retard to not see how far video codecs have come in the past 15 years.

P.S. High Def Digest Video quality grades are widely regarded as a joke, the Underworld transfer above gets 4/5 stars. As do BD and HD DVDs of "Training Day" and "We Were Soldiers", all dismal transfers. A ton of examples of the difference between MPEG2 and H.264 on this thread at AVS.

Besides this is off-topic, so get back to consoles....
 Last edited: by stefc
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantAscended_Saiyan
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Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 1,127
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I agree that none of this should have been in this thread.  This should be in the format thread for sure.

Of course, VC-1 is better than MPEG-2 at similar low bitrates.  That only re-enforces my previous post.  Tears of the Sun is on a 25GB BD using MPEG-2.  It has one of the highest PQ of any HD release (VC-1 or H.264).  I have only said that MPEG-2 is not as efficient as VC-1 or H.264.  If given enough head room, MPEG-2 can look every bit as good as VC-1 or H.264.  That is a fact.  VC-1 and H.264 are better at lower bitrate encodes.  That's what it was designed for.

According to the AVS link you provided, VC-1 does not preserve grain properly.  It seems to macroblock the grain and tries to connect them.  That would suggest high bitrate MPEG-2 is better for movies with heavier grain than VC-1.

I believe I also gave you another option for HD reviews besides HighDefDeigest.  I said DVDTalk.com.  Here are some other HD reviewers...
HomeTheaterSpot.com
UpcomingDiscs.com
themanroom.com
dvdtown.com
To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantgraymadder
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 103
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Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:
Quote:
It's good news to Xbox 360 owners (except for the X360 Core owners).  First, MS needs to cut the prices on the 20GB HDD before even thinking about the 120GB HDD.  $100 for 20GB is insane.


I agree that the Core owners are screwed, but IMO they should have paid the extra 100 bucks and got wirelss controller, hd and component. MS needs to drop the 20gb disk and lower the 120gb to <100. 2.5 hdd are coming way down in price.
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantstefc
Registered: March 14, 2007
United Kingdom Posts: 254
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Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:
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It should be your settings.  Only select your max. resolution in the video settings and everything will output at that resolution.

Nope doesn't work. UK PS3 has 576p ticked and greyed out so it is always enabled.
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantstefc
Registered: March 14, 2007
United Kingdom Posts: 254
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The new Euro prices and SKUs for the 360:


UK prices are £299.99/£249.99/£179.99. Adds HDMI ports and wireless controllers on all 360s, and the tard pack now comes with a 256mb memory card with 5 free XBLA games preloaded.

Bioshock released today in the US (and friday in Europe) with phenomenal reviews across the board (97% average across 34 reviews at time of writing). Demo has been up on Xbox Live for the past week if anyone has missed it.
 Last edited: by stefc
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantDr. Killpatient
Here's my card
Registered: May 19, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 5,918
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Quoting stefc:
Quote:
the tard pack


This made me laugh.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantAscended_Saiyan
A Blu-ray crack fiend
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 1,127
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Bioshock seems to be excellent.  I think I will get it on PC.  It's the best version I hear.

Persona 3 seems to be a hit as well.

Heavenly Sword also seems to be great from a review or two.  Not that I blindly follow reviews.


EDIT:  Just found out Bioshock has a widescreen issue on PC and Xbox 360.  I found it on the 2K forum.  I might pick this up if they fix this.
To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles
 Last edited: by Ascended_Saiyan
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantstefc
Registered: March 14, 2007
United Kingdom Posts: 254
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Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:
Quote:
Bioshock seems to be excellent.  I think I will get it on PC.  It's the best version I hear.


The 360 version runs alot better, even with considerably better hardware in a pc. This game was a 360 lead game even though the devs state the two versions are equal. Go with PC solely if you have a PC considerably above those recommended specs (if you make min specs forget about), or if you can only play shooters with mouse and keyboard.

Quote:
EDIT:  Just found out Bioshock has a widescreen issue on PC and Xbox 360.  I found it on the 2K forum.  I might pick this up if they fix this.

This is not an issue, its by design, the game was designed at a 70 FOV in 16:9, and when it came to the 4:3 resolutions on PC, instead of taking a 4:3 cutout of the centre of the 16:9 screen, 2K chose to  extend vertically (bit like open matte film). Playing it on the 360 or the pc in 16:9 is in fact the correct field of view, and 4:3 on a pc isn't.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantAscended_Saiyan
A Blu-ray crack fiend
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 1,127
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Quoting stefc:
Quote:
Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:
Quote:
Bioshock seems to be excellent.  I think I will get it on PC.  It's the best version I hear.


The 360 version runs alot better, even with considerably better hardware in a pc. This game was a 360 lead game even though the devs state the two versions are equal. Go with PC solely if you have a PC considerably above those recommended specs (if you make min specs forget about), or if you can only play shooters with mouse and keyboard.

Quote:
EDIT:  Just found out Bioshock has a widescreen issue on PC and Xbox 360.  I found it on the 2K forum.  I might pick this up if they fix this.

This is not an issue, its by design, the game was designed at a 70 FOV in 16:9, and when it came to the 4:3 resolutions on PC, instead of taking a 4:3 cutout of the centre of the 16:9 screen, 2K chose to  extend vertically (bit like open matte film). Playing it on the 360 or the pc in 16:9 is in fact the correct field of view, and 4:3 on a pc isn't.

I'm just wondering where you got your info from about running better on the X360.  I believe this game was announced for the PC first over 4 or 5 years ago.  Could you provide a link?

If you read further into that site, they say it's being worked on.  If it's being worked on, how can it be by design?
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DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantstefc
Registered: March 14, 2007
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I got my info from running the demo on the 360 and on PCs. The game was developed by Irrational (now called 2K Boston) which are the primary development house while 2K Australia, a smaller satellite team handled the PC version.

The FOV they chose within a 16:9 ratio was the design, and a very carefully selected one. Levine and the team say so numerous times in the forums, but pc owners have kicked up an uninformed stink so they are looking at adding adjustable FOV to the PC version, to reduce the amount of whining children clogging up their forums.

P.S. You have stated many times you have sold your 360 because its such a poor console and the PS3 is so much better, so why make the statement

Quote:
Bioshock seems to be excellent.  I think I will get it on PC.  It's the best version I hear.


When you have no choice in which platform to buy it on, as you only have one of the platforms its on? Could it possibly be because you have no idea what platform it performs better on you just like smearing your fanboy drivel everywhere? I bet you haven't even played the PC demo have you?
 Last edited: by stefc
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantAscended_Saiyan
A Blu-ray crack fiend
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 1,127
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Quoting stefc:
Quote:
I got my info from running the demo on the 360 and on PCs. The game was developed by Irrational (now called 2K Boston) which are the primary development house while 2K Australia, a smaller satellite team handled the PC version.

The FOV they chose within a 16:9 ratio was the design, and a very carefully selected one. Levine and the team say so numerous times in the forums, but pc owners have kicked up an uninformed stink so they are looking at adding adjustable FOV to the PC version, to reduce the amount of whining children clogging up their forums.

P.S. You have stated many times you have sold your 360 because its such a poor console and the PS3 is so much better, so why make the statement

Quote:
Bioshock seems to be excellent.  I think I will get it on PC.  It's the best version I hear.


When you have no choice in which platform to buy it on, as you only have one of the platforms its on? Could it possibly be because you have no idea what platform it performs better on you just like smearing your fanboy drivel everywhere? I bet you haven't even played the PC demo have you?

P.S. show me where I said I sold my X360 because "its such a poor console".  Oh wait, you can't because I NEVER SAID THAT.  Could you try to be civil in this thread?  Even if you can't be civil in the other thread, surely you can try it here.  It might be nice.

All I asked for is a simple link to someone other than you says the same thing.  If you can't provide that, I can't go along with what you say.  That's all.
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DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantstefc
Registered: March 14, 2007
United Kingdom Posts: 254
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1. In this nauseating thread you dribble on at length with phrases such as
Quote:
I will enjoy my PS1, PS2, and PS3 (especially the advanced 1080p and lossless sound...not upscaled to 1080p)


and claim that Gears of War is only 3 hours long because Epic were restricted to a DVD9 and that resistance fall of man takes 16 hours to play and had larger multiplayer maps because of the blu ray storage medium!! You explain how you own 18 PS3 games and you say "You enjoy that Xbox 360!  I traded mine and the games in for PS3 game reserves."

So you yourself said you sold your 360 to buy terrible PS3 games.

So again I've just proved that your previous statement of hearing the PC version of Bioshock is the better version is more of your fanboy drivel, because you neither own a 360, nor have played the demo or game on PC, nor have posted a source for your claim (something you love to do and berate anyone who doesn't) nor do you have any form of consumer taste in gaming (or movies for that matter) as buying almost all of Sony's PS3 game and BD output is a definite indicator of you either working for Sony or being completely insane. I would guess both.

2.
Quote:
THE TRUTH ABOUT WIDESCREEN
August 22, 2007

We understand there has been some concern about the implementation of widescreen mode in BioShock. Hopefully, we can clarify how we’ve chosen to do this.

The first thing we want to make clear is the mode we developed the game on and the optimal mode for playing the game is the widescreen mode. 90% of our development stations were widescreen displays: artists, programmers and designers.

- BioShock was primarily developed and tuned for widescreen mode. Artists and designers worked with widescreen displays and chose a field of view (FOV) that best reflected their intentions with respect to the way the world is perceived, the perceived speed of movement of the player relative to the world and the amount of the world they wanted to be viewed for the best game-play experience. We went through dozens of iterations and finally settled upon a widescreen aspect ratio that best suited the gameplay experience.

- When playing in widescreen modes the game makes use of the full screen resolution, and does not crop or stretch a lower resolution image into a wide screen one. For example, at 720p the game renders natively to the full 1280x720 resolution.

- Once this FOV was established, we chose to keep exactly the same horizontal FOV for standard def displays, so as not to in any way alter the gameplay experience.

- Instead of cropping the FOV for 4:3 displays and making all 4:3 owners mad in doing so, we slightly extended the vertical FOV for standard def mode: we never wanted to have black bars on people’s displays. (This way, everybody is happy…) This does mean that people playing on a standard def display see slightly more vertical space, but, this does not significantly affect the game-play experience and, we felt that it best served our goal of keeping the game experience as close as possible to the original design and art vision on both types of displays. Reports of the widescreen FOV being a crop of the 4:3 FOV are completely false.

One thing we can assure you that all these decisions were made with the best interests of the game in mind. We didn’t save any money or development time by choosing this set of parameters. We did what we thought was the best thing for the game: developing and optimizing it for widescreen displays, and making the decision not to do the usual crop for 4:3 displays. As a consumer, you certainly have the right to disagree.

We understand that not all users might not be happy with these choices and we will be looking into options for allowing users to adjust FOV settings manually. But as we mentioned earlier, changes to video game code do not happen in minutes or hours. We appreciate your understanding.


from the Cult of Rapture site.

Happy now, or would you like me to embarrass you some more?
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantAscended_Saiyan
A Blu-ray crack fiend
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 1,127
Posted:
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Quoting stefc:
Quote:
Quote:
1. In this nauseating thread you dribble on at length with phrases such as
Quote:
I will enjoy my PS1, PS2, and PS3 (especially the advanced 1080p and lossless sound...not upscaled to 1080p)


and claim that Gears of War is only 3 hours long because Epic were restricted to a DVD9 and that resistance fall of man takes 16 hours to play and had larger multiplayer maps because of the blu ray storage medium!! You explain how you own 18 PS3 games and you say "You enjoy that Xbox 360!  I traded mine and the games in for PS3 game reserves."

So you yourself said you sold your 360 to buy terrible PS3 games.

So again I've just proved that your previous statement of hearing the PC version of Bioshock is the better version is more of your fanboy drivel, because you neither own a 360, nor have played the demo or game on PC, nor have posted a source for your claim (something you love to do and berate anyone who doesn't) nor do you have any form of consumer taste in gaming (or movies for that matter) as buying almost all of Sony's PS3 game and BD output is a definite indicator of you either working for Sony or being completely insane. I would guess both.

What does that have to do with you claiming I said, "you have sold your 360 because its such a poor console" and being TOTALLY WRONG?!  Why would YOU continue to embarrass yourself by back-pedaling?  And, I own 15 PS3 Blu-ray games and 4 downloadable PSN games.  You may say the games are terrible (probably without playing them...which is not that wise), but I and my friends enjoy them. 



Quote:
THE TRUTH ABOUT WIDESCREEN
August 22, 2007

We understand there has been some concern about the implementation of widescreen mode in BioShock. Hopefully, we can clarify how we’ve chosen to do this.

The first thing we want to make clear is the mode we developed the game on and the optimal mode for playing the game is the widescreen mode. 90% of our development stations were widescreen displays: artists, programmers and designers.

- BioShock was primarily developed and tuned for widescreen mode. Artists and designers worked with widescreen displays and chose a field of view (FOV) that best reflected their intentions with respect to the way the world is perceived, the perceived speed of movement of the player relative to the world and the amount of the world they wanted to be viewed for the best game-play experience. We went through dozens of iterations and finally settled upon a widescreen aspect ratio that best suited the gameplay experience.

- When playing in widescreen modes the game makes use of the full screen resolution, and does not crop or stretch a lower resolution image into a wide screen one. For example, at 720p the game renders natively to the full 1280x720 resolution.

- Once this FOV was established, we chose to keep exactly the same horizontal FOV for standard def displays, so as not to in any way alter the gameplay experience.

- Instead of cropping the FOV for 4:3 displays and making all 4:3 owners mad in doing so, we slightly extended the vertical FOV for standard def mode: we never wanted to have black bars on people’s displays. (This way, everybody is happy…) This does mean that people playing on a standard def display see slightly more vertical space, but, this does not significantly affect the game-play experience and, we felt that it best served our goal of keeping the game experience as close as possible to the original design and art vision on both types of displays. Reports of the widescreen FOV being a crop of the 4:3 FOV are completely false.

One thing we can assure you that all these decisions were made with the best interests of the game in mind. We didn’t save any money or development time by choosing this set of parameters. We did what we thought was the best thing for the game: developing and optimizing it for widescreen displays, and making the decision not to do the usual crop for 4:3 displays. As a consumer, you certainly have the right to disagree.

We understand that not all users might not be happy with these choices and we will be looking into options for allowing users to adjust FOV settings manually. But as we mentioned earlier, changes to video game code do not happen in minutes or hours. We appreciate your understanding.


from the Cult of Rapture site.

Happy now, or would you like me to embarrass you some more?

I just asked you for a link.  You provided that link.  Thank you.  You need to explain to me how that's an embarrassment.  Wow!  You really ARE a hateful person aren't you?
To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles
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